Special General Meeting

[Jon B]

No-one as yet seems to have mentioned in detail anything about the forthcoming Special General Meeting taking place next Wednesday 13th September or their own opinions of the main event.

From my understanding, the main event of the evening will be a "vote" on the future of the club in relation to maintaining our semi-professional status or to revert back to a solely amateur club.

I believe that as rugby union was turned into a professional game and Orrell became a professional rugby union club, there is now no going back.

Times change and all areas of sport have changed with regards to amateurism and professionalism and whilst many will remember the "good old days" when Orrell played top flight rugby and yet were an amateur club, no-one can deny that those times have well and truly gone.

I won't deny that there are many very good and successful amateur clubs but in my opinion thats not where Orrell RUFC's 1st team should be striving to be. There is certainly nothing wrong with having an amateur section to the club but I believe that Orrell RUFC as a whole should be continually striving and aiming to be the very best they can be and to me, that means being semi-professional.

Should Orrell however be unable to sustain their current semi-professional status through lack of finance, political sabotage or other, then that becomes a different matter and no vote would be required. I strongly believe though, that whilst there are people working their damned hardest behind the scenes and players who are are putting in their all (for lets face it....beer money), then we owe it to them to work towards moving ahead as we are.

I would be extremely interested to hear from those who to me actually count in all of this, the Players, the Colts, the Juniors & the Mini's as to what their feelings are on the matter. After all, it's their futures affected by all of this.

There is no doubt that Orrell RUFC is going through a very dark period at present as it has for a couple of seasons now. However, I believe that with Chris Chudleigh as Club Coach and the positivity of the squad and most fans, there is light at the end of the tunnel with regards to what happens on the field.

We have Dave Whelan and Maurice Lyndsay, who for whatever reason, seem hell bent on doing whatever they can to make life impossible for the club. They blatantly obstruct us at every opportunity without a care for who suffers, be it the 1st team or the kids despite them supposedly caring about sport and the town of Wigan (yeh right).

This is a time when everyone who TRULY cares about Orrell RUFC should be pulling together in one direction, firstly to survive and then to thrive.

Therefore, for what it's worth I'll be voting for us to stay as we are, semi-professional and I hope that if that is what is decided, then those who vote differently will either accept it and support the club as best they can, without bickering, back biting and griping...or go elsewhere !

VOTE (semi) PRO.....IT'S THE WAY TO GO !!!

[Gateman]

Jon, you put a very strong and positive case forward for the retention of the semi-professional set up. But who is going to finance it? At the start of year 3 under the 5 year deal we thrashed out, Wigan have pulled the plug on sponsorship. So that begs the question where do we get major finance from? We have no facilities for Corporate Hospitality and we can't rely soley on gate money & Membership fees to pay players' wages. I like most Members haven't a clue what sort of monies are being paid to players, win, lose or draw.
Also, I, like every other Club Member with any length of time in, have seen it go from total amateur status, right to the top and now return to where we came from. The beer money you mentioned was a free barrel in the corner of the Club in the true traditional way and I don't see why it can't revert to that instead of wages we can ill afford. Everyone was happy with that set up, but it was money that complicated everything and lead to our downfall. Yes we have to move on with the times and can't keep looking over our shoulders, but it worked for us then and there's no reason it can't work now. We need a set of players who would "die" for the Club, yes, "lay their life down" for us on a Saturday afternoon, and be happy with a few free pints. Meanwhile, all money accrued from whatever source could go to the rebuilding of this famous Club and one day, probably not in my time, Orrell could get back to the top. Click on the Club History on the home page to see how it all started. It's not as bad as that today, we've no ground or facilities to call our own these days but at least we don't have to carry goal posts and mark our own pitch out!!
Sorry mate, I beg to differ with your sentiments.And I won't be going elsewhere if we retain the status quo. The last thing we want is to frighten existing members off.
Shutty

[strebor48]

I am in agreement with gateman the only way you will get players that will die for this club is to revert to amatuer. Where did the players come from in the past? and remember Orrell was more succesful as an amateur club than they ever were under proffesional rugby, the local community through the Junior Section which was one of the strongest around. We need our own pitches and a strong base and only then will you get players, volunteers and supporters and with our fate in our own hands no-one but ourselves can be held responsible for our fate keep out the money men and bring in the rugby brains and Orrell diehards for a succesful orrell throughout all our teams
I am not involved at present due to a bad couple of years health but as soon as poss will hopefully once again be involved with the Juniors in the future.

[observer]

Gents Orrels relegation from 3 is a certainty, what is the point in pumping money in this season. Its much more sensible to develop your youth and community and drop down a league and re-group. In North 1 You can compete with a local set of committed players and re-build.

therealjonb said:

No-one as yet seems to have mentioned in detail anything about the forthcoming Special General Meeting taking place next Wednesday 13th September or their own opinions of the main event.

From my understanding, the main event of the evening will be a "vote" on the future of the club in relation to maintaining our semi-professional status or to revert back to a solely amateur club.

I believe that as rugby union was turned into a professional game and Orrell became a professional rugby union club, there is now no going back.

Times change and all areas of sport have changed with regards to amateurism and professionalism and whilst many will remember the "good old days" when Orrell played top flight rugby and yet were an amateur club, no-one can deny that those times have well and truly gone.

I won't deny that there are many very good and successful amateur clubs but in my opinion thats not where Orrell RUFC's 1st team should be striving to be. There is certainly nothing wrong with having an amateur section to the club but I believe that Orrell RUFC as a whole should be continually striving and aiming to be the very best they can be and to me, that means being semi-professional.

Should Orrell however be unable to sustain their current semi-professional status through lack of finance, political sabotage or other, then that becomes a different matter and no vote would be required. I strongly believe though, that whilst there are people working their d**ned hardest behind the scenes and players who are are putting in their all (for lets face it....beer money), then we owe it to them to work towards moving ahead as we are.

I would be extremely interested to hear from those who to me actually count in all of this, the Players, the Colts, the Juniors & the Mini's as to what their feelings are on the matter. After all, it's their futures affected by all of this.

There is no doubt that Orrell RUFC is going through a very dark period at present as it has for a couple of seasons now. However, I believe that with Chris Chudleigh as Club Coach and the positivity of the squad and most fans, there is light at the end of the tunnel with regards to what happens on the field.

We have Dave Whelan and Maurice Lyndsay, who for whatever reason, seem hell bent on doing whatever they can to make life impossible for the club. They blatantly obstruct us at every opportunity without a care for who suffers, be it the 1st team or the kids despite them supposedly caring about sport and the town of Wigan (yeh right).

This is a time when everyone who TRULY cares about Orrell RUFC should be pulling together in one direction, firstly to survive and then to thrive.

Therefore, for what it's worth I'll be voting for us to stay as we are, semi-professional and I hope that if that is what is decided, then those who vote differently will either accept it and support the club as best they can, without bickering, back biting and griping...or go elsewhere !

VOTE (semi) PRO.....IT'S THE WAY TO GO !!!

[Jon B]

I can understand and welcome both of your opinions, however both mention the past. Reading the club history and how it used to be I can understand the nostalgia and would love to have been around the club in those good old days, as admittedly, I wasn't.

I wonder however just how many players we could attract to the club who would be willing to lay their lives on the line for the love of the club when all we can offer them is beer. There are many other very local clubs who would be more than willing to step in and offer players showing talent a CASH incentive to join them and as we all know, in this day and age, money talks.

I believe that the financial problems regarding main sponsorship this season was one of Mr W withdrawing his money at the last minute despite making promises to the contrary, making it virtually impossible to find a replacement prior to the season's start. Yet another blatent act of sabotage on his part.

I do whole heartedly believe that if all club members and fans pulled together, we could succeed, prosper and move the club forward in it's current semi-professional status. However, and this is my opinion, I really cannot see how we could ever be any more than a small social club with a rugby team tagged on if we reverted back to the past. If that is what is wanted, then so be it but I personally would like to see more for Orrell RUFC than that, particularly given the clubs history. I believe it should be a great rugby club with a superb social side tagged on.

At present the hard work is being done by a few. What we need is more volunteers to help in all areas to lighten that load, as make no mistake, the hard work would still be required if the club were to revert back to amateur.

[Jon B]

Dear Observer,

If you know that Orrell's relegation is a certainty after one league game, perhaps you could let me know the 6 winning lottery numbers for tomorrow....it's a rollover. Also, do we have a local set of committed players waiting in the wings to play 1st team rugby?

[Joe]

"We need a set of players who would "die" for the Club, yes, "lay their life down" for us on a Saturday afternoon, and be happy with a few free pints."

I simply cannot believe some of the posts on here. Are you people completely deluded??? You honestly believe amateur is the way forward for this club?

Jesus Christ... excuse the harsh words but WAKE THE HELL UP. A decision to go purely amateur would totally destroy this club and, as Jon rightly says, would leave us with a small old-mans-type social club with a few rugby players.

I am in complete shock at how ridiculous the amateur argument is. I am in complete terror at the frightening amount of people who seem to actually think it is a good idea!!!

[Paul Wilson]

The people who will vote 'amateur' at the forth-coming meeting have, as they believe, the best interests of the club at heart. They are looking at the finances and, I believe, have a sponsor who will put money into the club ONLY PROVIDING it becomes purely amateur - I stand to be corrected on this.

Speaking personally, as a humble member, I hope that all will be disclosed at the imminent meeting but, given past experiences, know that it won't be. I am now very tired from trying to glean bits of information from whatever source and, at the same time, know that I am only being told what I 'need to know' as opposed to the full truth.

I hear so many rumours from so many sources that my mouth is beginning to froth.

Everyone should vote as per their own inclinations, but everyone should also remember that rugby is now professional. That will not change!

I will not post my own personal views and will probably say nothing during the debate (unless I get angry!) - all members will follow their own instincts and ideas as regards the future of our club.

[Jon B]

I wonder if the rumours of a financial sponsor are true, would that sponsor still invest money in the club's future if the democratic vote goes against them?

[Gateman]

Joe, Jon. It's clear to all that we have been in a downward spiral since we failed to get into the premiership. Just how many more coils are on this spiral before we "bottom out" is the unknown quantity. Yes we need players with commitment to the club, but this is where the true loyalty lies, that being - playing for fun rather than money.{That way I won't be on a murder charge for asking players to die for us}. That then leads to how much money. Then - so and so club are paying their players £X's per game why aren't we? and this is where it all started last time.
Amongst a few famous Rugby Clubs that went bust along with us was London Scottish. I'm lead to believe that they are on the up again after finding their nadir. Have we "bottomed out" yet?
And can I just say that the sterling work you are both doing to raise Club funds is a tribute to you both in these difficult times, but surely those funds should be ploughed back? Very soon I fear, we will need not only a clubhouse, but somewhere to play also. Where's the money coming from?
Oh and on the nostalgia bit, no one is trying to take a step backwards. That is Club history, and as members, OUR history, YOUR history, and no one can take that away. I cannot and will not subscribe to sweeping it all away, a lot of people had a lot of enjoyment out of Orrell during those times and to recount those memories still gives people a lot of pleasure. The next generation are in place now to take the club forward with a new style of thinking. That is good. But let's not run before we can walk lads.
See you tomorrow.
Shutty

[guest]

>:(It's all very well everybody talking about the past, but it's the future that matters. Is anyone actually interested in what the colts and juniors want? If they were we wouldn't be having this conversation, the only thing that’s we have to offer the kids is the possibility of playing semi-professional rugby.

The people that this vote affects are the ones that can't vote how unfair is that?

I think that you all need to get your heads out of the sand and get into the real world, there is no going back once you have turned professional.
You are all talking about the good old days, it was easier then because very few if any teams where professional so everybody was in the same boat. Remember today we have to compete with rugby league.

Start thinking about the Colts and Junior in YOUR vote otherwise they may just vote with there feet!!

[gladiator]

I'm in total agreement with John B...if the vote goes for a fully amateur set up then that's it, the end of Orrell RUFC.

A totally amateur 1st XV will drop through the leagues like a stone. Do you know how far down you have to go before you reach truly amateur status - a long, long way. Forget the National leagues, forget North 1, forget North 2 & keep going. You only have to go a league or so above the Anvils to see players being paid something. We go amateur and don't worry about the quality of players reducing....worry about getting 15 players out at all.

We are a National League Club. National League! Why would you give this up just like that? Please remember - plenty of clubs are striving to be in the (league) position we are in. We should try to play at the highest level possible.

It's no good harking back to the "good old amateur days". The game has changed, the dam has burst and there is no going back. It's romantic nonsense talking about finding players who will die for the club. You won't find any more committed players than those we've had for the past 2 seasons. Playing for a very small amount of cash for a club with no clubhouse, few training facilities, successive relegations and a dwindling number of supporters. Players are committed to the cause but you have to offer them something, not necessarily financial. You have to offer them the opportunity of playing at the highest level their ability will take them to. If we announce that Orrell as a club is looking to drop 6 or 7 leagues - who's going to join us? Being in the National Leagues is the major attraction for players. If we lose that and have no ambition to return we can forget increasing the playing & the membership base.

How much are we paying players anyway? I bet it's hardly anything as it is. I'm willing to be corrected as I don't know any financial details but I don't think paying players the amounts we do is likely to bankrupt the club more than we already are.

A vote for amateur status is a vote to kill the club

[Chris C]

I feel that true colours are being shown. When you talk about players that are willing to die for the club you seem to discount the hard core of 25 or so that currently form our first team squad. They do receive money. Less money than my old club Northwich are now paying in S Lancs Cheshire 1..... The same league as ASPULL!

These people are currently outgunned in National three, a situation that will not last long due their commitment and desire to improve. But these people still turn out to training to be thrashed, two hours full contact work, or two hours hard cv. Training is very different from the days when we ran through a few moves and the forwards talked about line out options!! And they still approach every match full of enthusiasm.

HOW DARE YOU QUESTION THE COMMITMENT OF THE BOYS WHO RUN OUT FOR THIS CLUB. ( because that is what you are doing). I am new to this club and see very little in the way of real commitment to this club from anybody other than a very tight knit group.

The ONLY people who keep me here... and I've been pressed to leave already... are the players, who deserve the support because their attitude and commitment is outstanding. As long as they stay committed then so will I.

You don't need to be amateur to get commitment from the playing staff. Don't take National League rugby away from the people who strive for it. The youth in this club won't stay if Orrell sink to the lower reaches.

And as for the gentlemen who thinks we're down already......... I've nothing to say to you that I would put into print.

Chris C

[Joe]

Chris, your comments are spot on. I don't think some of these people have a damn clue exactly how much work you are putting into the club. For them to turn around and suggest some of the things we have seen here is a MOTHER OF A SLAP IN THE FACE not just to yourself Chris, but to myself and the entire playing squad.

I am actually struggling to type right now through aggression, it makes me sick that some of these so-called 'Orrell' fans are the ones who are contributing to our downfall.

Absolutely disgraceful.

BUT!
Rest assured that these small-minded individuals will only make me work even harder to help return Orrell to a stable and competetive side once more... mark my f*cking words.

[dan23780]

I think maths might come into it somewhere. There is much talk around the ground that the club may not be able to continue to fulfill its league fixtures in it's present financial situation. How true this is I don't know.

If gate reciepts are the only real source of income then we can guestimate an income of approx £1200 every other week (home games only ). Sponsorship on top of that?? I really wouldn't like to guess.

Based on an educated guess of about £50 per player per match, thats 22 x 50. Which works out at about £1100 per match.

Then there are travel expenses. Catering for away players etc.

There is a serious shortfall there and who knows what the reality of the situation is that we are facing.

We may be presented with a case of ' go amateur or lose your club '

The anvils are yet to fulfill a league fixture and I see no reason why an amateur orrell side could not fulfill their fixtures for them if they are willing to let that happen to their club.

Orrell could then use the phantom investor to purchase a set of land ( behind the YM cricket club would be nice ) and build/extend a clubhouse on the site, and play at a competetive level.

I have heard a few ex orrell people state that they could raise a team of local lads and ex colts that are playing amateur for teams such as Leigh and LSH, that would be a match for anyone in the local divisions.

I want to see ORUFC survive. I don't want them to go out of business. I hope someone can come up with a viable alternative to effectively starting again. I really do.