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Post by Jon B on Sept 11, 2006 16:49:28 GMT
Dan, thanks for the post but unless you know facts and are only pretending to speculate then I can see no relevance in the first part of your comment at all  regarding the current finances. Absolutely anyone can guess at figures as that is in effect what you're doing. I'm hoping it will all become clear at Wednesday's meeting. Until then I won't speculate....just hope for the best |
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Post by player on Sept 11, 2006 19:31:09 GMT
dan you are talking crap! the only way forward is to battle on this season an hope that when more players come we can stay up.but dont forget that if we go back to old times i for 1 will not be staying an know at least 8-9 more wont stay 2. that will leave you with 5 anvils and colts so if you do good luck. you will needed it an that would be the total end of orrell.  |
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Post by dan23780 on Sept 11, 2006 20:55:15 GMT
What did I say that was crap? We all have to battle on this season regardless. Many of us fans have got used to battling on. It seems obvious to me though that the club just doesn't pull the money in anymore.
I have no beef with anyone, certainly not the players. I spend my money to come and watch you lot in far flung backwaters like Yorkshire. I just don't think its time for head down and plough on. I think we need to come up with ways of generating income or we have to reduce our outgoings. That is the reality of the off field 'business' part of the game. You need as much coming in as you have going out.
I have followed Orrell since I could see over the Advertising boards. I will follow them for a long time yet. Even if it means watching an Orrell Anvils side turn out against Wigan Old Boys.
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Post by Jon B on Sept 12, 2006 6:23:16 GMT
Yet again you're stating the obvious??? Of course we need as much money coming in as we have going out...in fact we could do with more.
Are you able to come up with any ideas that no-one else has thought of or are you offering your services as a volunteer?
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Post by Rugby Fan on Sept 12, 2006 9:33:38 GMT
Guys
I am not a member of your club, however I have played against Orrell on a number of occasions and as a North West rugby fan, have nothing but admiration for your club and your history.
It breaks my heart to read some of the comments written in this forum. All of you should take a long deep breath and a very hard look at yourselves. The debate, while critical, has descended to an unedifying slanging match.
Regardless of your final decision, the truth is that amateur or semi-pro, you will not be able to exist without everyone supporting each other and your club. You should all accept that regardless of the route taken your destination is a common goal, namely the survival and prosperity of your club.
Coaches and players need to concentrate on coaching and playing, not making comments on websites. The facts regarding finances need to be displayed in a open and honest manner and spectators and volunteers should keep opinion to themselves and their friends until all the facts are discerned.
Emotional and utterly groundless comments such "the juniors will vote with their feet if we become amateur" or "the club is already down" are not rooted in fact and therefore pointless in this debate.
Gentlemen take that deep breath and understand that the only politics worth partaking in is the politics of the possible. Remove the emotion, and the unfounded opinion, deal in facts and be prepared to compromise on your positions. By doing this you stand a chance of saving your club, not only for yourselves, but for all true fans of rugby in this country.
Good luck and best wishes.
Steve
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Post by dan23780 on Sept 12, 2006 10:29:17 GMT
I agree with the above two posts. Jon I have volunteered. I volunteered when we had the meeting in the new stand when DW first announced his intention to give the club back. I am still able to help out if that is what is needed.
As for ideas, well I can't promise new ones. Oktoberfest anyone? We would need a willing publican with a function room. We could charge for tickets, do a raffle, auction off some rugby gear ( international tickets or are we still banned? ), Head or tails type game.
Maybe we should have an ideas thread where people can put any idea out for general consumption, no matter how outlandish. I heard the Jazz nights were succesful, so lets broaden the scope of the non rugby activities.
See you all on wednesday.
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Post by Paul Wilson on Sept 12, 2006 10:39:56 GMT
Have a look at the results for both the Colts and the u15s this last weekend - absolutely brilliant.
As stated in their web section, these are among the people we will lose if the club chooses to take the amateur path as well as most of our senior players and, BY NO MEANS LEAST, our coach.
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Post by mhoughton on Sept 12, 2006 11:29:20 GMT
well said paul lets just hope the opportunity for some of these lads to play professional rugby for orrell is still there in a few years time.
regards.
m.houghton
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Post by Jon B on Sept 12, 2006 12:04:01 GMT
Dan, thanks again for your post. Regarding the ideas thread, please refer to the thread entitled "Social Calendar" under General Club Talk. All ideas from anyone would be most welcome.
With regards to volunteering, yes, we are desperate for more volunteers in whatever capacity and time input you have available. Please contact Paul Wilson through the official website or on this message board...thank you.
Dear Rugby Fan, your comments only echo those raised by me on several occasions on both this and the unofficial tosas website. It seems to me that everyone is becoming pre-occupied with internal politics and forgetting the real reason why we are all so concerned...and that is the survival of this great rugby club.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, we have dark forces at work in the form of a spiteful multi millionaire, who despite his wealth and his so called caring for the town of Wigan and local sport, is attempting to drive Orrell RUFC, with their glittering 80 year history into the history books forever, rather than to allow us the opportunity to run the clubhouse for ourselves & generate much needed finances, when I'm sure it would cost him no more time or money.
Therefore it is imperative that we all stick together, smooth over our differences and move forward doing whatever we can to survive.
COME ON ORRELL !!!
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Post by 1st Team player on Sept 12, 2006 13:03:32 GMT
I think Jon is right we need to stick together the fans and players need to be one if not we will fail.
I want this club to be great again and I am doing all i can on the training pitch and on match days.
I know the board is doing everything to keep the club together.
But i think now has to be the end of the negetive talk lets pull together as one after all we all want the same thing.
This season is about development not survival Chris told all the players we wont get relegated and i believe him and so should the fans this club wont leave national rugby and you all have to believe it just like all the players do.
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Post by Joe on Sept 12, 2006 13:25:20 GMT
;D Head's high everyone!
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Post by Jon B on Sept 13, 2006 8:17:38 GMT
I know I'm a little late in posting this final message before tonights meeting but I'm hoping as many people as possible will see it and ask the following questions for themselves.
When any voting on any subject takes place, e.g. political parties, it is normal practice for all parties concerned to put their arguments forward and to try and convince the voters that they can do a better job than those already in power and to put forward their policies.
Taking the current situation at Orrell then, we know just how things run in a semi-professional capacity, we understand the issues facing the club at present i.e. we could do with some additional finances and we need to do something about (un)Sporting Wigan (DW/ML) and I believe that if we all come together and pull in the same direction we can improve both these situations.
Correct me if I'm wrong however, what are those that prefer the amateur route offering instead??? Has anyone actually heard anything from them? I certainly haven't. Other than talk of how good it was years ago when money wasn't involved (yeh right), what is being offered as an alternative?
Who is going to run the club? Who is going to organise sponsorship and fund raising (which will still be required whether we pay players or not)? Who is going to source players? As I don't believe we have many (if any) local players waiting in the wings to play for Orrell for a pint of beer. Who is the mystery sponsor waiting to put his money into an amateur club (if the RUMOURS are true)? Would any new Committee deal with (un)Sporting Wigan?
Unless, what increasingly seems to me to be a secret society, believe they have rallied enough support behind everyone else's back to win the vote, I can't see why anyone would vote for someone who:
a) No-one knows who they are (unless that's just me).
b) No-one actually knows what they are proposing (other than not to pay anyone).
c) No-one knows their short term plans i.e. what will happen to the club this season? not to mention their medium and long term plans.
There are many other questions that remain completely unanswered and unless these are going to be addressed tonight by the people involved, it will be a completely blind vote, which could be potentially catastrophic for the club!
Here's hoping sanity will prevail this evening and we will be allowed to get on with the vitally important job in hand.
See you later....
Jon
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Post by PLAYER on Sept 13, 2006 10:33:34 GMT
good shout john, if this person has got this money to invest why does he not give it now to get some players in? instead of putting orrell in its own little dream world as amatur teAM  |
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Post by Paul Wilson on Sept 13, 2006 12:13:42 GMT
OK, I know I said that I wouldn't put my personal opinion on here so please ignore the following:
Ref. Dan2370's message on 14th Sept; he has heard that a few EX Orrell people could raise a team of local lads and EX colts. All seems a bit 'EX' to me, just like amateur rugby is EX, unless you want a social club with a few EX players trundling around in the mud looking forward to a free pint, a good p*ss-up and some (bloody good) dirty songs affter the game? Some 'local lads' would be attracted for the same reasons plus the fact that they would be able to brag to their girl-friends that they are 'Rugby Players' - inverted commas are deliberate.
Those who would run the club would not be elected by members but would be a Management Panel imposed for an indeterminate period (maybe 3 years). They would seek charitable status and would therefore have to have a board of trustees. These trustees would (surprise) come from the same grouping of people. Initially they would say that officials would be elected by members after that 3 year period. In my opinion the only members left would be those people who will vote for 'amateurism' this evening, thus making the position of the 'blazers' secure. All nice and cosy and going nowhere, but happy with that!
I may live in the clouds - many, including my wife, think I do - but, even should we be relegated yet again, I would hope that Orrell would still have the ambition to climb back up the ladder. In my mind, to define our status as purely amateur is to draw a line beyond which the club will never progress even if it still survives.
It all depends on what you want as a rugby club. Do you want a social club with a bit of (crap) rugby tacked on the side, or do you want a serious rugby club with ambition to drive forward once more?
I cannot add to those previous posts regarding players leaving, including colts, for clubs which are going forward, should we take the amateur route. We will also have nothing to offer the 8-year-old, who's parents will take him/her to a club that is looking to the future and not back at it's past.
This evening's meeting is one of the most critical in the history of ORUFC. I'm going on holiday on Saturday evening and would like to go with peace of mind regarding our club. Whatever your inclinations PLEASE come and have your say and vote whilst you still can!
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Post by Paul Wilson on Sept 13, 2006 12:24:52 GMT
Personal message to 'Player':
I know but am unable to divulge the name of the phantom benefactor of the amateur ideology. Suffice to say that he will not commit funds unless the club goes purely amateur.
ie. he will put something in providing everything goes his way - remind you of anyone?
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regarding the current finances.
